tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post3794781310088712645..comments2023-10-25T09:49:43.089+01:00Comments on BEN'S PRISON BLOG - Lifer On The Loose: To Hurt or to Healprisonerbenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14923205052778958118noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-3096964605972085592012-11-01T13:42:46.545+00:002012-11-01T13:42:46.545+00:00And are you claiming that this guy has now given u...And are you claiming that this guy has now given up crime? If not, thanks for another example of how not to respond to crime.prisonerbenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14923205052778958118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-89330478779878649892012-11-01T13:24:28.376+00:002012-11-01T13:24:28.376+00:00I doubt that it can be done, to be frank.I doubt that it can be done, to be frank.prisonerbenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14923205052778958118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-42764475753584731692012-10-31T14:24:07.616+00:002012-10-31T14:24:07.616+00:00@Anonymous 30/10 7:27 I think you have your figure...@Anonymous 30/10 7:27 I think you have your figures wrong. Of the 88,600 you speak of, at least 19,000 are "on remand" and more than half of them will walk from court or have charges dropped. As a result, that's 9,000 prison spaces being wasted.<br /><br />That's drops your figure to less than 72,000 already.<br /><br />Then look at those in Open prison. For people who have a determinate sentence, allocation to Open prison just proves they should never have been imprisoned. I remember my time in Open - the prison was in my head, and I just focussed on walking out of the door on the specified date and not before.<br /><br />Once in a Probation hostel, I realised there are five levels of prison in the UK, and Probation Hostels are the fourth, above Open Prison. So if these people are safe to release, why are they under heavier restrictions that they were in Open Prison?<br /><br />in 60% of cases, people sentenced to jail terms should instead be sentenced to community service of the same duration, and be (reliably) tagged for 12 hours a day whilst serving their sentence. That gives the same level of loss of freedom as prison, with virtually none of the cost. And this even works for the violent, the dishonest, etc etc. It could even work for murderers and rapists, if done properly.<br /><br />Finally, build "community rehabilitation" flats for those that need more security than a simple tag, or those that cannot be tagged for valid reasons. These would be like secure university halls, run by Probation officers.<br /><br />That would leave a high security prison estate for the worst of the worst, and needing about 20,000 places in total. Turn some of the better prisons into remand centres for the 5,000 or so that genuinely need remanding, and the system is complete.<br /><br />No need to open your home to an offender, just cope with the fact that they are living in their homes - exactly as they are now.Fenrir Lukoinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-75776985995054488872012-10-31T12:22:34.796+00:002012-10-31T12:22:34.796+00:00While on holiday last summer I saw prisoners in No...While on holiday last summer I saw prisoners in North Carolina USA working on a chain gang by the side of the motorway in temperatures of 95 degrees. As someone who goes into UK jails regularly it looked brutal. If ever there was ‘deterrent’ to stop reoffending then surely this kind of regime must be it, yet the USA has more than 2 million in custody! I was wondering Ben if you had a view as to how prison can satisfy the public and make a positive difference to a prisoner?<br />Sheikh Omar Dullaleenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-79641508080064741072012-10-31T00:17:52.511+00:002012-10-31T00:17:52.511+00:00Sure, you might be right; things may never change ...Sure, you might be right; things may never change ... But which side are you on? The side that wants change and reform, or do you go with the inadequacies and injustices of the present? About the cost, well, its what people choose to do with money isn't it? Pay for wars, trident and weapons of mass destruction, give money to banks etc, or, should it be invested in the community, in schools, healthcare, welfare, a fairer prison system; all things that would make for a better and more healthy economy. <br /><br />Just look at Iceland as an example, their ecomony turned around by orientating on health and welfare needs. <br /><br />Infamousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-12127654700224872432012-10-30T23:58:20.186+00:002012-10-30T23:58:20.186+00:00July 14th is correct; but we must learn from histo...July 14th is correct; but we must learn from history or it repeats... The glorious French Revolution consumed itself until power was seized by a lunatic called napoleon Bonaparte who then crowned himself emperor of all France and its dominions (google the French terror for all the nasty history) but the point is which bits of the CJS do you want to dismantle? You can't just close prisons and replace them with COSA or any other substitute unless you completely reform the courts system, and the police, and the law as we know it....<br />Time to get real, prison may not be perfect, but were stuck with it because 1 it's too costly to replace it, and 2 the community aren't all that bothered enough to overthrow the system and rise up in rebellion....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-84230964719999196582012-10-30T23:49:26.546+00:002012-10-30T23:49:26.546+00:00Anonymous; We've all got individual examples o...Anonymous; We've all got individual examples of stuff.. and of course there are plenty of nasty shitty things that happen, especially under the present conditions where a nasty shitty system makes people srcabble around and fight eachother for crumbs while a small minority lap up huge wealth and privilege. Also the gangster capitalist system knows no boundaries, has no morals, is alienating for everyone and perverse. So its a corrupt system and people suffer in very many ways. <br /><br />My point is, Anonymous, that when there are uprisings against the system, the most famous and still celebrated is "bastille day" i think July 14th, when the masses tore down the walls of the bastille and went on to make a revolution. The characteristic of uprisings still carries on in various parts of the world to this day. People do not want their brothers and sisters given no hope and locked up; and when the mass of people feel confident enough to orchestrate change, one of the things they do and have done from a long while back is they tear down prison walls.<br /><br />If you don't want that to happen then be part of a campaign to stop the injustices, to stop the IPP system for example, because if the current lack of any empathy and understanding (mainly from the government, but from other sources too) continues, something will break, who knows what ...?Infamousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-53055627859216245242012-10-30T23:45:12.030+00:002012-10-30T23:45:12.030+00:00No. Vigilantism is ilegal for a reason, which is w...No. Vigilantism is ilegal for a reason, which is why Ben is suggesting something much more sensible.Wigarsenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-60579681404350295382012-10-30T23:37:37.565+00:002012-10-30T23:37:37.565+00:00Circles of support and accountability are a system...Circles of support and accountability are a system put in place to help the people change.Wigarsenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-91516895318680490002012-10-30T22:42:38.383+00:002012-10-30T22:42:38.383+00:00recently, a drug user robbed a local late night st...recently, a drug user robbed a local late night store, hitting the young girl 'on duty'.<br />some locals tracked him down, kicked s**t out of him and then called the police telling them where to find him. Is this the sort of community 'support' that will bring down prison walls?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-61826471313773250732012-10-30T21:51:25.097+00:002012-10-30T21:51:25.097+00:00@Chuck, thanks for those links; I tend to hope peo...@Chuck, thanks for those links; I tend to hope people are interested enough to do their own Googling and not rely on me!<br /><br />Don't get hung up on Circles of Support. They are a great illustration of what can be done at the community level but are not necessarily the only way to do this sort of thing. I point to them as a stark reminder that prison isn't the only answer out there.<br /><br />If the community chooses to remain obsessed with prison, fine; they also reap the consequences. A pity.prisonerbenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14923205052778958118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-43884652702818378302012-10-30T20:41:22.657+00:002012-10-30T20:41:22.657+00:00Super Saint, (that speaks volumes),
You are wrong...Super Saint, (that speaks volumes),<br /><br />You are wrong on so many levels here. 'If you can't to the time do not the crime'. This is nonsensical the way you have put it.<br /><br />'They know if they steal a lap top they go to prison'. You need to get away from the crime = prison mentality.<br /><br />'They know what they do and the punishment for doing it'. Deterrence is always a problematic ideology. If what you say was true then Texas would have a really low homicide rate as they put more people to death there than any other US state. But it has one of the highest. <br /><br />'It is people not the system that needs to change' I would suggest the opposite, but what do I know, you seem more clued up than most due to your overwhelming evidence.<br /><br />ChuckAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-2685546825603354542012-10-30T20:26:59.282+00:002012-10-30T20:26:59.282+00:00For evidence try these links: http://www.circles-u...For evidence try these links: http://www.circles-uk.org.uk/resources/research-journal-articles<br /><br />ChuckAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-68782286031628561442012-10-30T20:24:44.220+00:002012-10-30T20:24:44.220+00:00Jake,
tell me you didn't put 'google circ...Jake,<br /><br />tell me you didn't put 'google circles' into google? That would be pretty silly.<br /><br />Try this as a start: http://www.circles-uk.org.uk/<br /><br />ChuckAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-9430942637610294002012-10-30T20:18:43.368+00:002012-10-30T20:18:43.368+00:00Don't feed the Trolls!!Don't feed the Trolls!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-57425285259952052242012-10-30T19:56:59.622+00:002012-10-30T19:56:59.622+00:00Which community are you talking about here anonymo...Which community are you talking about here anonymous? For many people, those behind prison walls are our brothers and sisters. In many uprisings from the french revolution onwards, prison walls have been torn down as part of the revolt and uprising by the masses, sorry, but you are wrong about 'the community' not wanting prison walls taken down.Infamousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-55790133155817289312012-10-30T19:56:40.059+00:002012-10-30T19:56:40.059+00:00Ok. Where is the history of Google Circles taking ...Ok. Where is the history of Google Circles taking responsibility for prisoners? Where is the evidence of low re-offending rates? What are the comparative rates exactly? I think you need to quote and link sources if you are making quite radical claims - not saying they are not true - but do need justification. How does the deterent element work exactly?Jakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-1220115259030266572012-10-30T19:39:09.558+00:002012-10-30T19:39:09.558+00:00Yes... But the community doesn't care too much...Yes... But the community doesn't care too much what goes on behind the walls... And certainly wouldn't want the walls taken down... Sad but trueAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-45876526211691786842012-10-30T19:31:17.736+00:002012-10-30T19:31:17.736+00:00Um, all of these people are called "the commu...Um, all of these people are called "the community"....About 65,000,000 of them.<br /><br />That is worst case scenario, of course, that every con would need a 6 person COSA etc.prisonerbenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14923205052778958118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-72286567966880964182012-10-30T19:27:38.204+00:002012-10-30T19:27:38.204+00:00Ok, having read COSA on wiki etc I see its merits,...Ok, having read COSA on wiki etc I see its merits, but surely not on the scale that you argue for.<br />You say it could be used for all but a handful of prisoners.... Lets call this handful 10 percent of the current population of 88600; that leaves about 80000 offenders to be managed in COSA schemes... Forget the probation service, they're too busy managing those already on license or serving community sentences. Each COSA offender needs a core of at least 6 workers to maintain the circle, even if you gave each support worker a case load of say 10 offenders you would need 48000 workers to run the system; where would these people come from?? That's why I called your suggestion whimsical.<br />It's no good hating prison and all it stands for unless you can suggest a workable alternative... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-56272803302999609002012-10-30T18:54:08.131+00:002012-10-30T18:54:08.131+00:00His lack of 'spacial awareness' gives him ...His lack of 'spacial awareness' gives him away as a repeat offender!Darbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-8630996860701332372012-10-30T18:09:15.493+00:002012-10-30T18:09:15.493+00:00Hello TROLL :) We shall now all ignore you unless ...Hello TROLL :) We shall now all ignore you unless you are ON TOPICAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04928906979224146119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-32165558393723903742012-10-30T18:03:33.972+00:002012-10-30T18:03:33.972+00:00Certainly now true that people are now seeing Benn...Certainly now true that people are now seeing Benn for what he's worth & his ideas being based on simple bitterness.Some thought that he's been educated-quite the opposite & his 'education' hasn't been at all worthwhile.More loss to the taxpayerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-38902212747601940612012-10-30T17:44:12.196+00:002012-10-30T17:44:12.196+00:00Not the church, though they took the lead with Cir...Not the church, though they took the lead with Circles of Support and Accountability in Canada through default.<br /><br />Google Circles, look at the history and the evidence. Even high risk criminals can be kept in the community with lower reoffending rates than prison.prisonerbenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14923205052778958118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-59654352176828497152012-10-30T17:42:30.458+00:002012-10-30T17:42:30.458+00:00You could have Googled Circles of Support of cours...You could have Googled Circles of Support of course, and looked at the "whimsical" success in Canada for example. prisonerbenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14923205052778958118noreply@blogger.com