tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post4285462728163556684..comments2023-10-25T09:49:43.089+01:00Comments on BEN'S PRISON BLOG - Lifer On The Loose: Victims and Debateprisonerbenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14923205052778958118noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-46219629256371231542013-03-17T16:29:35.019+00:002013-03-17T16:29:35.019+00:00Yup. The basic is 15 years, 25 years for a knife t...Yup. The basic is 15 years, 25 years for a knife taken to the scene with the intention of using it, 30 for 'more serious' (firearms, murder for gain). <br /><br />I've written a bit about it here - http://ukcrime.wordpress.com/2012/10/11/life-sentences-i-mandatory/ <br /><br />I think it used to be 12 for the standard murder, and 16 for aggravated, this was before the 2003 Act.<br /><br />PS. I'm not anonymous, for some reason it won't let me log in!Dan Buntinghttp://danbunting.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-16638077696660404912013-03-17T15:03:04.034+00:002013-03-17T15:03:04.034+00:00With regards toL
"One small typo - the start...With regards toL<br /><br />"One small typo - the starting point for determining the tariff is 15 years not 16 (or 25, 30 or whole life depending on the circumstances) for over 18s. "<br /><br />It depends on the method used (firearm, blade etc)<br /><br />Back in 1996 I believe murder by firearm started at 25yrs and was brought down by circumstancesJayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04676077233455176910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-71996884478878470412013-03-17T13:17:20.674+00:002013-03-17T13:17:20.674+00:00Excellent post as always. It is very depressing th...Excellent post as always. It is very depressing that the myths surrounding sentencing (specifically that sentences generally, and tariffs for life sentences in particular, have gone down when the opposite is the truth) are allowed to perpetuate in the media in the way they are. People claiming to represent victims should be aware of the truth and only harm their own cause by pushing the same untruths. Anyone intelligent who looks at it will be put off by the factual inaccuracies.<br /><br />The main impact of a 'life means life' tariff for all murders would be, I imagine, a dramatic drop in the conviction rate as juries would be reluctant to convict in many cases.<br /><br />One small typo - the starting point for determining the tariff is 15 years not 16 (or 25, 30 or whole life depending on the circumstances) for over 18s. <br /><br />Also, could you let me know where the figures for average time spent before release is from - I've been looking for them for ages! <br /><br />http://danbunting.wordpress.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-86647237370494138382013-03-16T11:44:57.049+00:002013-03-16T11:44:57.049+00:00I agree that we cannot let public policy be shaped...I agree that we cannot let public policy be shaped by the emotions of the moment. Thankfully you highlighted the facts - sentences for life have got longer (Blunkett, I think) There is a very low risk of reofending, much lower than non-lifer prisoners for standard offences and I understand lifers who are released and go on to commit a second grave offence make up less than 1%. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-45267009222313953612013-03-15T21:11:19.514+00:002013-03-15T21:11:19.514+00:00If this lady's comments can be dismissed as me...If this lady's comments can be dismissed as mere "emotional rhetoric", then let's be honest and concede that the arguments against 'life for a life' are also infused with emotion, whatever the other rational insights. However, I do find this sloganeering - "life for a life" - unappealing and facile, not to mention unhelpful. <br /><br />Part of the difficulty here is that even today with the expansion of the application of 'manslaughter' among homicide cases, murder is still a very broad-based offence. The circumstances that might lead to a murder conviction include all kinds of different scenarios, from the momentary rage of a jealous spouse at one end through to cold-blooded premeditated homicide at the other. Personally I am in little doubt that premeditated murder should, in principle, warrant the death penalty. The other gradations cause difficulty because, although there are non-premeditated acts that are, nonetheless, unambiguously and irredeemably immoral - i.e. evil - in the majority of cases the murderer will not be a long-term danger to others, and so a rational case can be made for parole and release after the prisoner has served his penance.<br /><br />Take the Griffiths case. An account of the whole sad and sorry incident can easily be found on google. We do not know exactly what happened because the three assailants chose to remain silent throughout the trial, but it seems the three were into drugs, the deed appears to have been impulsive, and a police spokesman admits the crime was without any obvious motive. For reasons of tact and sensitivity, I will leave unsaid the obvious conclusion to be drawn from this, but I assume we are all men of the world here. <br /><br />Two of the young assailants were sentenced to life, with minimum tariffs of 15 and 14 years respectively, meaning they will emerge from prison in their 30s. The third assailant was sentenced to 10 years, but only because he was under 18 at the time of the offence. Are these sentences appropriate? Well, the mother sat through the whole trial whereas I assume none of us did, but it's not unreasonable, I think, for we as dispassionate observers to argue for the possibility of parole where, as here, it is likely the deed was not premeditated and there is a possibility that the guilty men will, at some point, cease to present a significant threat to the public. So in that respect, I disagree with the lady.<br /><br />However, I do agree with her on one point. These men have committed a horrific and disgusting crime and if they are to be released, this must only be after a significant penance has been served. In these sorts of cases, it would not be acceptable to me for such acts to go unpunished. I concur with this lady that it would be dangerous and demeaning to us all if we allow the courts to soften their response to these crimes, as that would tend to cheapen and devalue human life. But we have to move away from sloganeering and politiking and find a more nuanced and thoughtful middle-ground that reflects and honours society's moral narratives while offering hope of redemption, or at least a second chance, to those who will reform. For me, that 'middle-ground' is only discoverable through a process of fine judicial discretion.Tom Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03941520164254766362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-46662208312459360152013-03-15T16:08:48.445+00:002013-03-15T16:08:48.445+00:00nice to be here, great blognice to be here, great blogmedia rjhttp://mediaranahjaya.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-36448269050719005012013-03-15T10:33:51.316+00:002013-03-15T10:33:51.316+00:00Good post (as always) Ben. The misguided belief th...Good post (as always) Ben. The misguided belief that the average is 10 and that it's less than it was is sadly common in the public sphere and it colours much of the debate. At the abolition of the death penelty the average tariff was 10 years but, as you say, we're now becoming used to hearing of tariffs exceeding 25 years.Nogbadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04838817425838931554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3184990032979540229.post-44644214891682791092013-03-15T09:34:37.734+00:002013-03-15T09:34:37.734+00:00Although I can empathise with victims families fee...Although I can empathise with victims families feeling strongly about this subject I think people give too much credit to emotional retoric when trying to formulate a policy that could actually be of benefit to society. The government needs to use reason and forethought if it's ever going to create an effective solution.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04676077233455176910noreply@blogger.com