No-one, including an academic criminologist and a working probation officer, could offer any evidence to challenge my claim that in relation to Lifers, probation have no effect on reducing re-offending.
It's not pleasant to think that all the controls and restrictions they will place on me are utterly pointless.
Does that not constitute a gross abuse of power?
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If being pointless represents abuse, then there are at least two solutions available: the first being to end the 'power', and the second being to add to it until it becomes effective.
ReplyDeleteThe latter has far more potential to be abusive.
Whilst I know there are dedicated and well-meaning probation officers, they are restricted themselves by the 'system' and it cannot be denied that their service has little overall impact on reducing re-offending. It needs a radical change; all the money it costs could actually be used to alter the direction of people's lives. Proper mentoring, rather than a short weekly meeting and tick-box exercise, would be a good place to start.
ReplyDeleteOut of interest, I want to know what Ben is basing the claim that probation has not impact on re-offending. Has there been a group of lifers released in recent years without probation as a control group?
ReplyDeleteI'm not stating I believe he is wrong, however all I have ever seen on the blog is "studies have shown." If this was wikipedia I guess I would be the little blue text saying *citation needed.*
"gross abuse of power?" I don't think so. A sensible process on behalf of society to aid rehabilitation and protecton of the public. Ben will understand perfectly the dfficulty and futility of trying to prove negatives.
ReplyDeleteMaybe not a "gross abuse of power", but surely some kind of abuse of power?
ReplyDeleteSome people need the kind of crutch a probation officer can provide, and many don't.
It seems to me that Ben has plenty of support to lean on should it be needed once he's released and (like myself) finds the whole notion of 'playing word games' in the probation office once a week a complete waste of time.
Maybe, as Ben is only talking about Lifers here, they need a special sort of probation supervision. Or is that just stating the obvious?
ReplyDeleteIt couldnt be proven, because it would require an experimental group of lifers to be released without probation supervision in order to compare the reoffending rates of the two... that just wouldnt happen because if a serious further offence did then occur the government would be under fire for allowing the study. It would be possible to look at recall rates, and perhaps draw some assumption that in some circumstances recall had prevented a further offence but that is not reliable because there is no guarantee an offence would have happened. The opinions of lifers ie. did the supervision actually help them would not be enough to provide any kind of solid evidence either, because it is too subjective so I dont really see how this could ever be proven either way...
ReplyDeleteSo, some lifers don't need the 'crutch' or the support afforded by Probation supervision...or arent willing to admit they do. That's all very well, but then again, Probation Aren't just around to wipe your arse, they also help to keep some level of control over lifers, they monitor an assess risk. This is not just designed to aid resettlement, it is to protect the public. After all, a lifers sentence is never served, a vital part of the sentence is working with probation.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely concur with the point made above, its impossible to monitor the effect of working with lifers, as no-one would ever be stupid enough to test out releasing a lifer without supervision. The answer is never going to be abolishing Probation, it ain't gonna happen, but if anyone has constructive, realistic ideas as to how it an be improved and aid lifers/other offenders, let's hear them!!
:)
This reminds me of the situation in mental health, where our 'treatment' by mental health services in the past was not helping us, there were (and still are) many bitter complaints specifically around matters of dignity.
ReplyDeleteService users developed the notion of 'recovery' from mental illness, a theory first dismissed, then jumped on by the professionals although they didn't know where they were going or what they were doing with it. It got to a ridiculous situation where mental illness was being denied as a condition (therefore no treatment, or just medication), and as many of you here know very well a large number of mentally ill people are being sent to jail still to this day.
However through all of the chaos and shambolic treatment, there is a flicker of light, in that the treatment teams are now describing themselves as 'recovery teams', this is only in the description of themselves at the moment and we are yet to see what this will bring, but it is a more positive description of how they see themselves and what they might do.
As for the probation service I would think that for lifers they would have to adopt a much more laid back and friendly approach if they are going to be of any help to lifers. There is no need for probation officers to interfere or direct lifers in ways they themselves judge, it would be much better to be more like a friend I would have thought.
Nope, still can't think of anything good to say about probation officers, (being an ex-con). Having said that, excluding the mentaly ill, such as the yorkshire ripper et al, most lifers have killed just one person, whatever the reason, but in reality, unlikly to kill again.
ReplyDeleteSomeone asked me if i was in jail with Murder's, yes of course i would reply, but i was never scared of any of them, they don't go round ad hoc killing people. So no, i don't see any way probation can reduce re-offending for lifers. Killing en mass, is something i can only recall about 3 cases in my lifetime, Michael Ryan, the taxi driver fella who's name escapes me, about 18 months ago. And Roul Mote, mad people are unpredictable. So Ben is right, they are more or less in-effective in reducing re-offending.
I don't think Ben has the full grasp of how hard it is out here, when you just come out of jail, are broke, and trying to get on your feet, this is where probation should help, but they are so useless.....don't hold your breath.
I am certain that most understand the stated role of the probation service in relation to released Lifers or HMP sentence prisoners BUT what sticks in the dark is the amount of power the probation service is actually able to exercise. We know that our courts cannot jail people without actually establishing guilt, and that our police can only act if a crime has been committed or is about to be committed. Yet we have the probation service who possess the power to jail on the mere personal judgement. The controls and measures that we have in place to monitor the quality of this "judgement" only come into play after the individual has been imprisoned! And the time it takes to review the matter could run into year plus. Surely this state of affairs is not satisfactory. Why not place the individual in front of the court and let the court decide whatever punishment any further "crimes" merit.
ReplyDeleteThe idea that probation offers support in resettlement issues is nothing but bovine excrement. There are all types of other agencies that perform this role.
I have bunddles of material that backs up the fact that those that have served a long time in prison are less likely to commit further crime, with or without probation "support".
The probation service is need of up dating and its role examined to see if it actually delivers value for money.
prem
@prem:
ReplyDeleteProbation don't have the power to imprison!! They have the power to review a case, and recommend that in their professional opinion (combined with wok with other agencies and background knowledge of a case) a return to custody is justified in order to manage risk. This decision is looked to by a number of people, and can be stopped at any time if the powers that be don't agree. In the minority of cases in which an appeal is upheld, it is my understanding that compensation has been agreed. Then aain, the offender must have committed a pretty serious crime in the first place, to receive over 12
Months, and technically only served half, so what's wrong with them going back to custody if the risk is deemed to warrant it?! They won't serve past their licence end date, so perhaps they're only serving what they were sentenced to, and what many members of the public would expect them to serve!!
If you all detest probation, they're useless and serve no purpose, let's get rid of probation, everyone can serve their full term...including lifers. Then everyone's happy huh?!
Any realistic suggestions anyone?!!
The Home Office ruined Probation when they made them part of the Prison Service (or NOMS), prior to this they had to have social work degrees and actually got to know and help lifers. Now their role is principally to enforce the terms of the life licence. However, there are hundreds of lifers out on licence and they have all worked around the situation. Ben Gunn's problem seems to be that he thinks the Prison Service should revolve around him and bow to his dictates, which will never happen. A bit of flexibility on his part would probably go a long way to helping his situation, he's no more special than any other lifer trying to get released. Yes, the system is corrupt; yes, the system is cruel and yes, the system is unfair but for God's sake get over it and move on like everyone else.
ReplyDeleteI must point out that Ben is not a lifer! He was not sentenced to "life Imprisonment" BUT rather to HMP. The spirt behind this particular sentence is reform and punishment NOT mere punishment and punishment!
ReplyDeleteI do not think that the probation service is detested BUT rather how it exercises power outside the court system. There are some outstanding and good people in the probation service but at the same time there are also individuals who allow their personal likes and dislikes to influence the way a dossier is put together ( sexed up ). Anyway, I would be greatly interested to know in how many cases the probation view was actually over ruled BEFORE the individual was re-jailed!
prem
'I would be greatly interested to know in how many cases the probation view was actually over ruled BEFORE the individual was re-jailed!'
ReplyDeleteMy guess, is a big fat ZERO!
How about you secretsquirrel, as you dismiss other's realistic suggestions already, have you any constructive, realistic ideas as to how probation can be improved and aid lifers/other offenders?
ReplyDeleteHaving to engage with people we dislike is a part of life for most, but having to engage with someone who, not only do you dislike (and with whom there is a clear conflict of personalities!) - but who also holds your liberty in their hands, invokes a different level of frustration in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteHere here Darby, and Sophie J. Probation will never do anything useful to reduce offending.
ReplyDeleteIn my humble opinion, if you wanna reduce 80% of crime, overnight, make it easier for drug addicts to get help/re-hab. Clamp down really hard on dealers and people who import drugs at every level. Hey presto, 80% of crime will not happen.
@Sophie
ReplyDeleteMore money. Less micro management. Less paperwork. More freedom to respond to offenders needs. More transparency in tems of public knowledge. Positive offender engagement (I.e fight WITH us, not AGAINST us!!). And again...more money (or spend the money we do have, more wisely!!).
Simple changes, that would make a massive difference. Whether you believe me or not, some of these changes are afoot. Hopefully saffa re given the opportunity to use the new processes and rules to their maximum effect...this remains to be seen!!
:)
*staff are
ReplyDeleteThe decision not to press charges against the florist who killed is an interesting one. I believe it is the right decision BUT, just for one moment, picture that this florist was a released lifer........would the decision have been the same?????????????? I can picture the probation recommendations........... Oh, shit does the Law not work equally in favour of its citizens?????????????????
ReplyDeletePlease chew and swallow but do not spit!
prem
'Please chew and swallow but do not spit!'
ReplyDelete'Food for thought'
I'm a lifer on the run and have been getting on with life without the probation service for over three years and free to get on with it without the threat of being put back in because I had a bad relationship. It ended sadly because my girlfriend then was an alcoholic and drug taker. I am in Italy with my new girlfriend and two year son who is growing well and it is hard for me but I am not causing or reoffending in this country or even when I was in the UK. t's sad I cannot come back to my own country without being recalled to prison for not seeing my probation officer. My name is Leonard Pow and also have relatives who I cannot visit.
ReplyDelete