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Ben
Lecturing
About Me
- prisonerben
- United Kingdom
- Previously known as "one of Britain's best known prisoners...he constantly questions authority and exposes the futility of the system" The Times, Ben was finally released from prison after 32 years in August 2012. Pleading guilty to the murder of a friend when he was 14 years old, he renounced violence and fought for the recognition of the inherent dignity of all human beings. As a result of speaking truth to power, he served far longer than the recommended 10 years, leading Education Secretary Michael Gove to argue that he had "been punished excessively for a crime committed as a child". One of the more intellectual of prisoner-campaigners, Ben chose to educate himself from schoolboy level to having both undergraduate and post graduate degrees. He is currently one of very few prisoners in Britain ever to attempt a Doctorate. Ben's speciality is non-violent action and the Human Needs Theory. Now on Life Licence, He is forging a career as a CJ policy consultant, writer and - as ever - campaigner.
Good one! Congrats!
ReplyDeleteGoing from strength to strength.....
ReplyDeleteYou didn't really answer the question Ben....
ReplyDeleteCynic-Al
Excellent stuff. Hell of a lot better that the politicians.
ReplyDeleteWaffle,waffle came to mind.As well as being totally contradictory in some phases.If that's all that he could say,then this interview was worthless to say the least.
ReplyDeleteAnd....?
DeleteOne thing that strikes me (both from listening to this and from having read the blog) is, that it is perhaps the easiest thing in the world to critique and point out the failings of an existing approach, but, what I don't see very much of are tangible suggestions for improvement, that could be practically applied in the real world.
ReplyDeletefor example, it is all very well to say only imprison violent criminals, but, home burglaries inflict just as much psychological harm as a mugging in many cases.
Also in the real world all facets of society must be taken in to account, vastly improving rehabilitation and employment opportunities for ex-prisoners will certainly effect the beliefs and attitudes of other groups of unemployed people.
To have any chance of having a convincing argument, with a practical solution for the real world (and surely this is what we all want from whichever side of the fence), an understanding of all view points must be gained, otherwise any comment could be seen as being made from a narrow and restricted view point.
@ neutral
ReplyDeleteExactly!!!
Cynic-Al
@Cynic-Al, at least you have the wits to stick a name on your comments for readers sakes.
DeleteInterestingly, though, for a guy who complains about my readers being acolytes of sorts, you adopt the consistently opposite view - nothing I ever say or do will please you. Precisely the mindset you seem to detest. Hmmmm.
Bitch away. If its interesting enough I may respond. But other than that, you may be left with your negativity all alone....
Not the case that nothing you say or do will ever please me Ben, nor should it be designed to do so; after all this is your blog and you are free to post whatever you wish.
DeleteThe points I have made about acolytes and messiahs etc are my attempt to illustrate that (1) your blog presents a fairly one dimensional view of prison and the CJS ( which is understandable given your position within the belly of the beast, but NOT necessarily informative because if its narrow perspective) and (2) if anyone ( such as myself) has the temerity to disagree with your view your more avid followers ( acolytes may well be the best way to describe them) jump up and down in outrage and accuse me and/or anyone else who disagrees of being either part of the system or deluded in some manner.
All this does is invite trolling from other areas, and the result is that the points raised in your original posts are lost in the din of the ensuing squabble.
I suspect that I will continue to read your blogs and will also post on it now and then. Whether or not you deign to respond to my contributions matters not at all to me, but ( and this is simply my opinion) even if you choose not to bestow the honour of a response to them, ignoring their sentiments will probably result in a blog that - a few months down the road - is a stale as a prison supper bun ( yes I remember them too Ben)
Cynic-Al
We have already covered the fact that this is all merely my view of the CJS. Obviously. And that got you terribly worked up, as I recall.
DeleteFeel free to disagree, and others will join in any reasonable discussion. The problem is, you don't just disagree; you come close to trolling and being plain petty and spiteful, which is not appreciated on this blog. discussion, disagreement, all exist here but the tone in which it is interjected matters and yours is dismissive verging on abusive.
The blog will do fine, thank you. And I don't actually believe that you are an ex-con. Your attitude is too....institutional. ho hum.
I'm sorry you feel that way Ben because I don't think that any of my comments have been petty or spiteful. I do feel that whenever I have disagreed with you or gently poked fun ( messiah) some of your followers have responded in a spectacularly spiteful manner, but that's by the by.
DeleteAs for you not believing that I'm an ex con, that of course is your prerogative; but the fact remains that that is exactly what I am (we may even have walked on the same yards for all you know because I will never reveal my true identity to you), what is most concerning though is your assertion that my tone is "too institutional" .... If you view every form of dissent with view that " the system must be talking" then I'm afraid that you're far far more institutionalised than I originally feared you were... Ho hum indeed
Cynic-Al
I must humbly apologise for not pleasing everyone in three minutes of TV, with the topic out of my control.
ReplyDeleteAnd I must also apologise for not drafting a complete new justice system. After all, I expect the complainers have already been to the people who they elected and pay for that sort of thing before coming to me about it...?
Extraordinary Ch4 interview after 32 years inside. I certainly could not have done this and come across so naturally warm and sincere. Ben is a remarkable chap who, as he himself says, inevitably crashed against a system of control and containment. I hope the Howard League will find good use for someone so well qualified in study and experience.
ReplyDeleteHear hear :)
DeleteYour presentation was very confident, and for a non-professional TV PR guru, it was excellent.
ReplyDeleteThe programme was addressing various government initiatives regarding prison reform; so Ben's piece needed only to point out the fundamental problems of the previous initiatives from the prisoners perspective. It was not, after all, a programme about Ben Gunn's prison reforms; therefore pointing out the fundamental contradiction between reform and punishment was more than sufficient in the time frame.
My concern is that 'reform', 'education', and punishment, all get lumped together in a nasty left-wing B. F. Skinner fascist dystopia; i.e. be politically correct, or suffer the corrective education of the 'reform gulags'.
It seems that public education, 'work programmes' for the unemployed, and the penal system, are all following a trend towards treating the person as a disease to be cured. Yesterday for instance, I heard the expression 'skills health' regarding employability checking; it's a slippery slope. And as a corollary, recall that about one million boys are being prescribed Ritalin, because their feminist teachers don't relate very well with them.
Well done mate, having been in a similar situation as your appearence on TV, I know how the media manipulate your given time, questions and answers for effect, be that good bad or indifferent.
ReplyDeleteHaving had spent 5 years served as an innocent man (yes it does happen) and another five on extended licence, and been duly tortured throughout my sentence to confess, by loss of privileges and denial to facilities, I would raise the issue of the "Cure all courses" that prisoners are forced to undergo, the courses themselves are pathetic,designed to do no more than humiliate, patronise and infantise otherwise intelligent men, in short they are a waste of space, time and money, and I wish someone somewhere would address this issue and consider restoritive justice with a punitive element, and possibly give prisoners some pride in themselves instead of just putting them up to have custard pies thrown at them
Totally agree regarding the 'cure all courses'. The ARV course has not one piece of documented evidence that it has a positive impact on its participants, yet offenders are made to or else. This and the entire rehabilitation offer, including OLASS needs heavy development.
DeleteBen, you know my thoughts on the blog, your work and your voice no pressure remember :-D
How on earth some people can say this was an extraordinary interview shows me how sycophantic some people are. All hail Ben-the convicted murderer. Wake up people & smell the coffee!
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing Jon Snow thought Ben did alright by virtue of the fact that he more or less invited him to return at the conclusion of the interview.
Delete@Anon, assume for a moment that we have lost our sense of taste. Please explain about this coffee? Just what is it people are meant to see, as you believe that you do?
DeleteHe was 14!?! Anon, above, what a spiteful person you are.
ReplyDeleteYou'd not say that as an excuse if it was your son that was murdered by him at such a tender age. My compassion lies with VICTIMS & NOT perpetrators of such heinous crimes.
ReplyDeleteOi! Who is making excuses for my crime? I never have, and no one here does, so put that rubbish aside shall we?
DeleteAnd as my own sister was killed, can I now expect some of your compassion...? Life, and people, are complicated as a glance around the blog would show you. I appreciate that your feelings are sincere, but they are also unidimensional and hateful. Why bother posting them?
OI!-Not hateful at all by any stretch of the imagination.Compassion is given by me to those in need of it & not those who commit/have committed such terrible crimes.Crimes which utterly revolt law abiding citizens.Crimes which have torn families apart due to the selfish wrong doings of others namely murderers/rapists & child abusers.
ReplyDeleteAh, a ranter! Welcome. I see you avoided the moral complexity of my being a victim of homicidal crime as well as a perpetrator?
DeleteAnd who does greater social harm? Because drivers - do you drive? - kill far more than murderers. And the damage done by bankers is far greater than Jimmy Saville.
But you won't hear the shades of argument, will you? All is well in your monochrome existence, where actually thinking about something instead of just hating is discouraged.
And, even if you offered compassion to a guy who lost a member of his family to homicide, I would politely decline it. You are too tinged with rigid judgemental bitterness to offer untainted human compassion.
If you only knew (of course I wont tell you) what I've seen/done in my life as opposed to your 3 decades cocooned away from society in you little world! Fortunately I've lived in the 'real world'where I & I alone have made choices-THE RIGHT CHOICES. You've only had to decide whether to go on daily exercise or not for 3 DECADES! What a total waste of your life
ReplyDeletetoo many Anonymuses people! Pick a random pseudonym, please? Are you the person I just replied to, or not? We shall never know...
DeleteAh, if you think that prison is any less real than any part of the world you exist in, then you are wrong. And the choices I made were legion - one of the most significant being to start the blog!
Murder isn't a choice, it is an overwhelming burst of emotion, unthinking. If you knew the topic, you would know that, but... And obviously I reacted badly and killed my mate. 32 years ago. What that says about every choice I made in life after that is something I cannot grasp.
And a life in prison, a life anywhere, is never wasted. We are all the sum of our histories and if that leads me to being who I am today then I can live with it.
I appreciate the emotional vigour of your comment; I regret its unthinking nature.
That's where you are today-a convicted murderer & now released.A nobody who thinks he's somebody.If your happy with your lot-so be it.I maintain though what a total waste of life be it inside or not-it's still a waste. One day you will realise,but then your life will be over.
ReplyDeleteHm, I think that spiteful diatribe makes my point beautifully. Thank you!
Deletei love an old cynic...everybody is a somebody regardless of their past.... shame there are narrow minded people like you...people that think because you commit murder u are a monster - without looking at the circumstances of how it happened....
DeleteYou are ever so welcome & I'm glad you appreciate it.
ReplyDeleteI'm always reluctant to get drawn into these kind of comment threads because they all too often descend into random bullshit being spouted by both sides which bears little to no relation to the original point. (Plus i always forget to check back to see if there's been any new replies, but that's another matter.)
ReplyDeleteBut i do want to go back to Cynic-Al's original point which was that you still haven't answered his question about what kind of system could you suggest which would offer a decent degree of rehabilitation, etc, yet still appropriately punish. Obviously in a 3 minute tv slot (well done for getting that, by the way) i didn't expect you to give a two hour presentation with supporting diagrams, but it's something that's irked me somewhat ever since i started reading the blog.
I've pretty much gathered by now that you're not a massive fan of the criminal justice system and the prison system as it stands, and that you think keeping someone locked up for 32 years for a crime committed at age 14 isn't the best way of doing things. (i'm not disagreeing with you on this point, by the way). However what i'm still in the dark about is what you think they should have done.
I would very much like to see you answer that question and make a suggestion as to what system you believe would work. I'm not necessarily bothered about it being an altogether realistic or practical suggestion, i just want to know what kind of system you would put in place if you were designing your ideal world. With specific reference to how someone like yourself should have been punished, all those years ago.
I was sharp in my initial response, when the reality is that this is something I have struggled with over the years. I will begin to write a long post on the topic, feel free to nudge me to get it done.
DeleteIn saying that we have a well paid political class to solve these issues I was actually making a real point. it isn't my job, and not in my power, to change the CJ system - it's the voters. All I can do is mutter on the sidelines.
"I will begin to write a long post on the topic, feel free to nudge me to get it done."
DeletePlease do. I shall look forward to reading it. I think a post like that is long overdue.
"it isn't my job, and not in my power, to change the CJ system"
Nobody is suggesting otherwise, i just want to know what you would do if it were in your power.
Hmmm. I think I disagree that it's in the voters' power to change things. Voters don't understand the complexity of this issue (not their fault as they can only understand what they are exposed to and we are all mostly exposed to tabloid hogwash on this subject). The political class can change things, but, wrong as I think this is from a democratic standpoint, the way to influence them to do so seems to be through individual lobbying (not the dirty word it is made out to be when used judiciously and transparently) rather than by voting. Individual lobbying you (Ben) are certainly in a position to do and, as long as you do it transparently, I think you should go for it!
DeleteSorry, that's a very poorly written comment. I hope you can figure out what I meant to say!
DeleteBen - please consider yourself nudged. I'd be interested to see if your views after 32 years, and my views after 4, concur.
DeleteI can hardly believe how normal Ben appeared last night on TV. It is amazing that he is already up and running on the out, and it testifies to the fact that some things (people, perhaps I should say) in the prison system are alright. Acknowledge the negatives but work to develop the positives. I think Ben made a clear point during his interview by saying that his personal development through study had to be fought for when it should have been in place as part of the system. You don't have to dismantle the whole lot in order to create a new rehabilitative system. Good people have been in there quietly working from the start. This, I am happy to tell, includes a fair number of prison officers and inside probation officers, but they are inevitably cowed by the political or retributive forces. When I came periodically before the Parole Board, I had no doubt that what interested them was my misdeed of ten years earlier, not what I had achieved in the way of personal development. So I think some posters are being too heavy on Ben. Give the poor man a chance to find his feet.
ReplyDeleteI think the internet went about as well as could be expected. He waffled a bit to start with but then began to answer more confidently. I think what could not be avoided was the fact that he was asked to describe himself, why he committed his crime, what he felt was wrong with prison and then what should be done to fix it in 3 minutes, or 90 seconds once you substract the interviewer talking.
ReplyDeleteWe tend to forget on the internet (especially those of us gifted with fast reading skills) that text translates very slowly into the spoken word. It takes about 5 times as long to say something as to read it. So if we convert ben's statements into written form they probably end up about the same length as some of the comments on this post.